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Post by Zanril on Apr 11, 2017 3:21:46 GMT
I've been co-owner of the shopping district for only 20 days and it feels like so many got-nothing-to-lose robbers have come by raiding trust/honor based shops. I believe trust based shops are common because of the size of the plots encourage compact building, they are easy to setup, setting and adjusting prices can be done quickly and you don't need a be a redstone nut to make one! (you could just lookup a tutorial on how to make a redstone shop though.) The whole process of reverting damage dealt by thieves is frustrating, the shop owner first has to notice that things are taken without pay, underpayed, wrongly payed, or overpayed, the shop owner then pokes staff about the robbery, staff arrives and casts magic to return any stolen merchandise. Its a small matter if someone steal from just one shop but when you have a cluster of these shops of course robbers are going to go on stealing sprees and the time spent reverting the damage and checking and undoing damage to other trust based shops is huge pain in the ass for whatever staff member gets the call that a shop has been stolen from. Essentials has a sign shop plugin that I'd like to see enabled. We don't need /money /balance or an official currency or anything like that. There is just ONE sign that I'd like to see which would evolve trust based shops, and hopefully reduce robberies toalmost zero - the trade sign. SIGN FORMAT: [Trade]<Buying>
<Selling>
Line1: Must be '[Trade]' Line2: What you want
Line3: What you are giving away EXAMPLE: [Trade]9 Emeralds 1 Daimond All you would need to do is put your 9 Emeralds in your hand and right click the sign to get 1 diamond back. Customers can't access the chest, you can't miss pay, overpay or underpay, its the same as a trust based shop except the plugin takes the items out of your inventory required for the purchase and gives you what you bought for you, its very hands off like a redstone shop but doesn't take as much space as a redstone shop. |
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Post by pupposaur on Apr 11, 2017 4:50:44 GMT
Wouldn't that get rid of the semi-vanilla title this server upholds?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 5:40:27 GMT
The 2 biggest reasons for me to have a trust based shop are actually convenience for the buyer and the fact that selling stuff en-masse is just not feasible in a redstone based shop, no matter how big the plot, this makes no sense. Sign shops would solve mostly everything though, assuming it can be implemented properly and has no way of being exploited or downsides (such as what Puppo mentioned).
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Post by Kitty on Apr 11, 2017 5:58:09 GMT
Now everyone knows I'm the biggest fan of redstone shops. Love em. But they are flawed in the current shopping district. Why? Not enough space to do more then 1:1 shops without going into the stone slab border. (As to why I only have the bottom floor at a 1:16) there just simply not ebough space for anything in the very small plot. The circle design of the district is pleasing to the eye but not practical for any serious redstone shop. I contemplated if I should do my own district a few times but simply dont have the time rn as we have an event just a few days away. (Maybe after)
Now to sign shops, staff has talked about the district so many times and seem to like the idea of a sign shop plugin(some would even like to use some tnt and forget it existed) BUT if it takes us off semi vanilla status it will not happen. Ever. Most people join to experience vanilla with the few things to keep their things safe. Thats why Simplex is so lovable, its simple. Simple is literally in the name. So yes we love the idea but no if it takes us off semi Vanilla lists. Id love to design a bigger better area when the time is right. Seems to be the only way to murder the trust based shops if we cant use a sign plugin.
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Post by Legendary_Sam on Apr 11, 2017 7:38:24 GMT
Everyone likes the idea and concept of sign-shops, this is obvious. The way of using sign-shops is much easier, and would clear out nearly the entire shopping district from trust-based shops. The only 'problem' here, is that we, as a server, would like to stand towards the more basic styles of living in Minecraft. What I'm trying to say there, is that starting 'sign-shops' would most likely take us out from the standard semi-vanila experience. We here at Simplex want to give the best player experience. We want to offer our players safety and security, for them to build up their homes, bases, builds, statues, farms, you name it! This is why we have logblock (unfortunely not CoreProtect) which allows a somewhat active staff-team filled with nice people to take care of those creations, wether it's blocks or just items taken from a chest. We want the server to feel save amongst the chance of being griefed / stolen from, which can happen nearly every single second of every single day. Because that can easily be recovered. The ONLY reason we, as a server, want to change to sign-shops, is because we want our players to feel save. I don't want people to contribute their time into making a shop, just to get stolen from by the first random (immature) person to enter the district with bad intentions, because theft is extremely commen in the shopping district. Adding signs prevents an insane amount of damage. Not only does it prevent the players from getting stolen from 24/7, it adds a little more safety to the whole server. I question myself: 'How is that ANY different than using LogBlock to fix the damage done by someone with bad intentions?' In my honest opinion, it's NOT different at all. Like I said, the only reason we want sign-shops, is because it's more secure. We don't use signs as an advantage, we don't use signs because we're a bunch of lazy people stuffing our amazing server with plugins to make everything boring. We use signs to protect the server from theft, and that's the only thing we do. Just my opinion. By the way, my shop has to stay trust-based, as I can not sell banner's via signs. I'm not sure if signs allow banners with patterns, but either way, I keep making new designs to place in the delivery chest. |
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Post by MarkE13 on Apr 11, 2017 8:49:27 GMT
We don't use them anymore but this is from Minecraft server list. To get an idea, they kicked us off their semi-vanilla list for just having /rtp. Now all we have is a command block under a pressure plate which does the same thing. Not saying a shop plugin wont help, it most certainly would. I would also hate, as staff, to keep having to check the shopping district for theft and trying to figure out what was taken illegitimately. I'm just saying, not sure if its possible to get a plugin like that AND keep our semi-vanilla status. :/
"SemiVanilla servers are created using Bukkit/Spigot jars, and may have very limited plugin use.
Allowed plugins include
Essentials commands (/spawn, /sethome, /home, /vote, /rules, /list, /ping, /ignore, /helpop),
Anti-grief plugins (GriefPrevention, CoreProtect, PotionProtect, Reporter, WorldGuard/WorldEdit),
Voting plugins (Votifier, GAListener, etc.),
Lag-reducing plugins (ClearLagg).
All default Vanilla features are allowed.
Wrappers to allow for chat commands like .home, .spawn, etc. are allowed. Chat plugins (/ignore, chat filters) may be used. Plugins that change the playercount, scoreboards, or player list may not be used.
Any other plugins that are used may not affect gameplay for regular players. The non-native plugin features available to players are limited only to integral commands. Semi-Vanilla servers rely on command blocks to do everything else. These servers do not have economy, multi-world, or minigame plugins."
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Post by X47man on Apr 11, 2017 13:17:20 GMT
I don't think it's possible to have SignShop and retain SemiVanilla status on most server listing websites. Now this could vary from site to site as there is no set standard. Some lists do not even allow /tpa <player>, but again it varies on the site. And now that I go check on my shop it appears I have been robbed of 3 stacks of clay. While SignShops would help eliminate theft it would likely not go over well with most listing sites. It's more so an issue of there are shoplifters and always will be and, since Simplex is semi vanilla not much can really be done without losing that status.
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Post by primustheone on Apr 11, 2017 14:55:20 GMT
I'm surprised that sign shops would change our status, as they are essentially a cousin of claim protection.
But we're not going to be able to change that, so it may be a good idea to come up with an alternative.
A few months ago, someone suggested that we trade via the forum by listing our items for sale and the prices. If someone is interested in buying, they would make arrangements for the trade on the server.
I think this is a good work-around, and it should be explored further.
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Post by X47man on Apr 11, 2017 16:32:04 GMT
I'm surprised that sign shops would change our status, as they are essentially a cousin of claim protection. But we're not going to be able to change that, so it may be a good idea to come up with an alternative. A few months ago, someone suggested that we trade via the forum by listing our items for sale and the prices. If someone is interested in buying, they would make arrangements for the trade on the server. I think this is a good work-around, and it should be explored further. I was the one who actually posted that suggestion. It never took off. simplex.boards.net/thread/388/meehanslist-trade-simplexs-forum-marketplaceAlso maybe one of the members here is proficient in Java and possibly could write a plugin that would fit within the semi-vanilla guidelines. |
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Post by cptchlorox on Apr 11, 2017 19:31:46 GMT
If you add ./tpa and ./home it can still can be counted as semi-vanilla. Simple feature, but a huge game changer which cuts out half of the vanilla experience. Now, add a small feature which barely changes the game (trading signs) and you can't even call it semi-vanilla anymore without being put to death. Funny how the system works. Something definitely needs to be done about trust based shops, and mods shouldn't have to be wasting all their time fixing griefed shops. At some point it should become the vendor's responsibility to make sure they don't get ripped off, whether it's by building a redstone shop or doing hand deliveries.
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Post by JavaNinja on Apr 12, 2017 17:25:54 GMT
First: I think that enabling the "buy signs" feature of the Essentials plugin (which we already have) is an *outstanding* idea, for all the reasons already stated. There is some fantastic discussion going on here, from people I highly respect in this community. But -- with all due respect -- all I see is "I think...", "I don't think...". I don't see any "I know for a fact...". A question for MommaPINK: have we asked the management at our site aggregators (topg.org and whether the Essentials -> "buy signs" feature would comply with their definition of "semivanilla"? If we haven't, can we please ask them? That would resolve the uncertainty and speculation, and -- either way -- allow us to proceed from an informed position. If it is allowed, then there's our solution. p.s. Here's a link to the documentation for the feature, for anyone who wasn't already familiar with its workings: wiki.mc-ess.net/wiki/Sign_Tutorial#Essentials_Eco_Signs |
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Post by Yaoigirl666 on Apr 13, 2017 22:14:26 GMT
my 2 cents. make a bigger district. hire redstone masters to make the shopes redstoned. allow shop owners to build around the redstone systems to make it there own. shop oweners can stoke the systems to sell what they want. that way theres a shopping district that everyone can agree on...no stealing...no bothering the helpers so much....and still vanilla...but ya know....thats just me lol
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Post by pupposaur on Apr 14, 2017 7:05:37 GMT
I agree with Yaoi. There are shop designs that have configurable payments and such that would fit even a 10x10 or 15x15 plot, but the plots we have now are too small to have any more than one of these devices and still have a shop that looks nice (1-2 block walkways are not fun).
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